#OBVIOUSLY the murder is tragic and killing people is wrong

[msnihilist]

"you guys are celebrating a murder" yes, I am aware?? 🤨 that's literally The Whole Point

[rockrosethistle]

"Ted Spankoffski is so tragic" yes yes I agree with you but you know who we don't talk about enough?

The man, the myth, the legend, Ethan Green.

Everyone loves to talk about how much they love him, but you are all forgetting that he is heartbreaking.

So first of all, he loves Lex. Incredibly devoted. And you're thinking, "well obviously he loves his girlfriend?" But I am not exaggerating when I say nearly every decision this man makes is for the sake of making her happy.

He cares about her opinion of him. He cares about how she's feeling. Ethan literally has more emotional intelligence as a 19-20 year old than most grown men do. He was going to propose!

And then his relationship with Hannah. At the ripe old age of 19, Ethan steps into a fatherly role for his girlfriend's kid sister, and he fucking kills it. If he is devoted to Lex, he's protective of Hannah. He dies trying to fight off people that want to hurt her.

The first time we see him in Yellowjacket, he's trying to cheer Hannah up after her shop class accident. On Hannah's birthday, he takes her out to Pizza Pete's even though he doesn't have the money to spare. She is a priority to him. He even wears a little birthday celebration crown.

On top of that, he's a decent guy. Yes, he's not above threatening people or stealing, but his heart is always in the right place when he does it. He puts the effort into his relationship. He is shown apologizing when he fucks up and recognizing his mistakes. He saves Lex and Hannah's life's at the end of Yellowjacket.

Great, right? No. Not great. The narrative is consistently ruining his life.

He dies in Black Friday. Dies in a brutal way while being ambushed for a doll that he didn't have. He actually dies for nothing. And his very last words are "I'll get you to California, Lex. That way you don't gotta cry so much no more." Was Lex in the room? No. He was hallucinating her. Fucking devastating.

And then, his face gets worn by a dark god to torment Hannah. Hannah, one of the people he cared most about, is being toyed with by something wearing Ethan's face. You just know he's watching in the afterlife feeling utterly powerless.

There are timelines where Ethan and Lex accept larger jail sentences so that Hannah isn't left alone. He is not related to Hannah, or Lex. He has no real obligation to do that. He chooses to, for Hannah's sake. And has to spend years in jail.

In Yellowjacket, after all they've been through, after he bought the damn ring, the girls just leave him behind. He gets broken up with via a note while they escape to California. And you know it's for the better, you know it's for his own safety, but it still hurts.

There was even supposed to be a Nightmare Time episode where he comes back from the dead Pet-Cemetery style, murders Hannah, and then is tortured for eternity?? But then the Langs were like "No, actually, everyone would hate this." and thank God because Ethan does not need that on his plate.

Look at this. "We caught you a poki-man." He's too good I miss him so much.

This poor guy does nothing wrong and is constantly being punished. I need in my bones to have a universe where he marries Lex and they get custody of Hannah.

[kiyomitakada]

impromptu meta at 2 — oh wait 1 in the morning thank you daylight saving time

the thing about light yagami is that we all know he is repression incarnate. and we also know that kira was born out of his desperate need to justify sort-of-accidentally killing two people. and so therefore kira isn't what light's repressing, not at the outset; kira is an extension of his repression.

and the death note and his need to hide it very quickly takes over light's life. so it's easy to say that light is light yagami on the outside and kira on the inside, and maybe light feels that way. but. kira is just as much a persona as light yagami. a more hidden persona, but still not the real him, whoever that is.

and the thing is that no one sees past that. ever. most people obviously fall for the charming boy act, but even the detectives — L, near, mello — god, even ryuk stops at part two. i think a lot about how L set up the mock execution because he thought that kira would have killed his own father if necessary. can you see light doing that? eighteen-year-old light yagami who said "if anything happens to you, dad — i'll see that kira gets the death penalty. i swear it."? remember when ryuk laughs at how good an actor he is afterwards and light doesn't look at him?

light never thinks kira is evil. even in yotsuba arc he acknowledges that they think very similarly, just that kira has gone too far. (ha, ha.) for all of death note light yagami is light yagami, who says if kira wins then kira is good, who has convinced himself he is doing the right thing. he gets frustrated when other people don't perceive him the same way — lind l tailor, misa killing police chiefs while pretending to be kira — but the anger has nowhere to go other than murdering more people.

light yagami is kira is light yagami. but L, ryuk, everyone doesn't manage to see through kira in the end.

and after L dies, well. no one will ever measure up to L, in light's eyes. he almost idolizes him in the weirdest way possible. so maybe, he thinks, if the only person in the world who could ever possibly see all of him (this isn't true, it's just what light believes) thought he was just a murderer, then maybe —

i think he hollows himself out in the second arc. in the anime he seriously considers killing sayu; in the manga he never does that but justifies his unwillingness to himself by saying that this way soichiro and light won't come under suspicion (they weren't going to in the first place). light doesn't really have a sense of self. L said he was evil and of course L is wrong — was wrong — will always be wrong — but isn't it easy to play into that stereotypically evil image of himself? especially after soichiro, his last moral compass, dies: isn't it easy to nullify misa's memories, to say she's not intelligent enough to be my partner, to kill kiyomi in the most painful way possible?

("light would have done the same things in the first arc!" sure. but not with that much callousness.)

it's just. it's tragic, you know? light has always pretended to be nicer than he is but he isn't the cold any-means-necessary person they thought kira was either. he is constantly playing someone he thinks he is but he can never escape being light, in the end.

does this make any sense do i sound insane

[sepublic]

Shoutout to my obscure faves, the Demon Hunters; I like how they're objectively pretty terrible people, attempting to steal someone's home and kill their house demon and kids for it.

But at the same time, Eye Patch is seen rooting for Eda's escape from the petrification ceremony because solidarity, and is later chill with the protagonists during the Bonesborough Brawl.

The BATTs rescue Good Hair from the covenscouts (because solidarity), which is obviously framed as a good thing. Good Hair joining a coven anyway out of fear, and her near-death from the draining ritual, a bad thing. Prim became a friend to Eda at some point and her joining a coven was also tragic.

My point being: They don't have to be perfect victims to not deserve genocide, the demon hunters don't deserve to be persecuted for unjust reasons. The people of the isles as a whole don't have to be morally perfect to not deserve genocide; Lilith did some terrible things but her abuse in the coven was unjust, as another example. As an individual, Adegast was a jerk who had it coming by people he actually wronged, and acted independently of the coven; But to judge an entire group for that is inherently absurd.

This is also why I love Boscha having her moment in For the Future, because unlike other characters, we've seen her be pretty awful, fully of her own volition and enjoyment without anyone really forcing her to, even advising against it in Amity's case. We know Boscha had no excuse for the stuff she did prior to meeting Kikimora; And indeed, she still managed to become leader of Hexside before that, and one could say her listening to Kiki's tyranny was kind of the natural evolution of Boscha's own bullying and obsession with domination.

But not being a perfect victim doesn't change the fact that she IS a victim in this situation, she's a minor with no other adults to rely on, being manipulated by an adult who is fully okay with murdering kids and has learned abuse from the best. And I think that's a good lesson for kids watching who DID do some bad things and might regret it, or question if they 'deserve' to get better because of that; But they want to, so they can and should!

This and the Demon Hunters means that for whatever conflict people might have, they definitely have a vested interest in protecting one another from a bigoted state, even if not from each other haha. There's not really a scene where an antagonist gets their comeuppance by being arrested, because if they were already targeted by the state for unjust reasons, then this would just validate its tyranny. Fittingly, the prison we see in Latissa is replaced by a hospital, which encapsulates the shift from retributive to restorative justice here.

[samglyph]

Good morning. Season 4 finale.

Holy smokes gang. What an episode. I absolutely loved it. I think it took a little bit for me to become really invested despite the in medias res thing we had going on, but once that action started I was in it. The visuals this episode were great, I especially liked the description of the mollusk mask on the viziers face. I also was quite pleased about the little reference to hastur being the peacock king that’s fun.

I know a lot of people are sad about the butcher. I am not because as soon as he showed up again I figured he would be one of the casualties of the episode, and narratively I like that it was Kayne who did it as opposed to Larson or an unnamed cultist or alien, especially considering I had a theory that Kayne was connected to the music in his head and the powers he had. I did love the twist of him being on our side though I actually audibly reacted to that. It surprised me but made sense in the perfect way. It also makes perfect sense to not include that scene, but I am excited to see some of the fan work that comes out of that missing piece. I’m AMAZED that Charlie managed to make it out alive, but then again he might be bleeding out on a street in Spain right now. Oh well. No body no death so I’m counting him as still kicking.

Speaking of Charlie, I loved the scene where John was forced to come clean. I liked how it twisted the previous scene of Arthur speaking for John and John finally being heard by someone else and feeling so so happy, to now be forced into a position where that newfound relationship is potentially going to be destroyed because he no longer has the option of privacy. Wild.

Of all the scenes with yellow, predictably Arthur’s confrontation and apology was my favorite. He’d already admitted fault in a previous episode but this I think is where it really hit home. And in other lines, while Yellow remained adamant that he didn’t care, you could tell that he genuinely did want to understand the connection between Arthur and John, and wanted to understand why he couldn’t experience the same thing. Most tragic fragment of a nightmare king. I hope you have fun flaying Larson alive for the next couple thousand years. Also why was Larson so flirty this episode dude he killed your son stop whispering in his ear like that.

And then of course, we get to Kayne. Kayne Kayne Kayne Kayne. Glad we got confirmation that Kayne isn’t/it doesn’t matter if he’s nyarlthotep because while have a fondness for the crawling chaos and Call of Cthulhu mythos, I actually like when things are separate from that. Plus I think it makes him scarier if he can’t quantify his existence. Holding out his bloody hand for Arthur to take and Arthur choosing to go with him willingly obviously paralleling his denial of Larson earlier in the episode. I also liked his takedown of Larson a lot. Fuck that guy.

Anyway @everyone who questioned why I draw Kayne covered in blood in every scene even when he’s not fresh off a carcosan murder spree how does it feel to be wrong.

[heytherecentaurs]

It’s hard to have a nuanced and level-headed compassionate reaction when people are actively trying to kill you. Whatever the Rat Grinders were before they aren’t that now.

(Discourse beneath the cut.)

I think conversation about what the rat grinders deserve is reasonable. They were manipulated and exploited. Maybe they deserve redemption. But why should it fall to the bad kids to give it to them? Also just because you’ve been manipulated doesn’t mean you’re less responsible for your actions. Teens radicalized by the far right are still responsible for their actions. “I was manipulated” isn’t a great defence for murder. Also everything about the Rat Grinders comes from a place of privilege and a belief they are owed something. They made the choices and bought into the ideology because of their sense of entitlement and this really common insidious belief I see on the far right of denying they have privilege and viewing themselves as some kind of oppressed class.

I interpret the rage and fanaticism as an analog for radicalization. The death of the people they once were and the rebirth of fanatics. It started out small, making choice after choice until it reached a point of no return. The Rat Grinders gave away pieces of themselves until they were new people. An ideology didn’t make them hateful spiteful self-entitled people. They accepted the ideology that fit their personality. Does who they were make them owed redemption? Obviously saying no was an option. Lucy said no; she healed the rats. She tried to follow KLCK but reached a breaking point. Have they ever shown remorse? Has there been any indication that they ever wanted to turn back from the path that led them to their conflict with The Bad Kids? Doesn’t seem like it. Where in this story has Kipperlilly been anything more than Kyle Rittenhouse with a blonde ponytail?

If they are to be redeemed, who they are now needs to be destroyed. Another death is required. And it should not be up to the bad kids, a group of teens to see that the rat grinders are deradicalized. Somewhere some reasonable adults need to take responsibility and control over things and deal with the situation. The bad kids may be able to fight to save the world but they don’t have degrees in therapy or any kind of deprogramming knowledge that’s gonna stop the rat grinders from killing them and Elmville along with them.

I like the rat grinders as villains but they are villains in a D&D game. And just because you may find them sympathetic doesn’t mean they automatically deserve redemption. It just makes their deaths tragic and avoidable and that’s fine. A lot of people die tragic avoidable deaths because of their own character flaws and because they trusted the wrong people. That’s allowed to be the case. They can be tragic and still die. Hell they can be tragic and still deserve to die narratively.

[aprilmayverse]

mayverse dash simulator

💅 pinkprlncesses Follow

🧟‍♀️ samuraishattered Follow op this is an incredibly fucked up and insensitive way to post about this. six people are dead. four of them are literal children. imagine losing a loved one and people are fucking memeing about it with supernatural. grow up. learn some fucking respect for the dead. this isn't just some quirky little fandom story like sharpie bath or whatever. these are real kids who had hopes and dreams and families and loved ones and now they are dead.

💅 pinkprlncesses Follow was it ever really that deep

🦴 trudycryme Follow New video about June July and Dysnomia Badmann's murders on the way! Special surprise at the end so stay tuned ;) Sponsored by Tender Lender <3

🦴 trudycryme Follow No fucking way

🩰 blood-and-books Follow wait, has anyone noticed that the accomplice in the bluecorp case and that 13 year old who killed her gfs parents and 2 random boys are half-sisters??

🍭 mera-duras-left-eyebrow Follow WAIT AND THEIR OLDEST SISTER HAD LINKS W/ BLUECORP TOO WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN

🪷 helloroses Follow does anyone remember how fucked up april may's career was. i rewatched pint-sized princesses after the news got out about her execution and like i know it was the 90s but what the fuck was going on there. it feels like a crime to watch it

🪷 helloroses Follow it's the same with her modelling career, why was she, a teenage girl, doing so many photoshoots where she was barely clothed. why did ad campaigns need all this

🦢 evilwomanenjoyer Follow why are we defending june july in 2018. she killed people. she murdered people. you are the same people who defend joe darke and dahlia hawthorne and matt engarde and fucking redd white. she took lives. where am i.

🐜 what-is-a-username420 Follow please learn about nuance and use your brain

🦢 evilwomanenjoyer Follow nuance is for fictional characters like pious priestess or whoever the fuck. not for real life situations like this.

🐜 what-is-a-username420 Follow sometimes im like "the reading comprehension on this site isnt THAT bad" and then i read shit like "nuance is for fiction not for real life"

🦴 trudycryme Follow I am truly, truly sorry for attempting to film those teenagers corpses and for breaking into the victims childhood home in an attempt to interview his family 2 days after the murder, I understand why I was wrong and I'm going to try my best to refrain from doing stuff like that next time lol. To further this, I'm starting a new merch collection and donating 20% of profits to JAVCV (Japanifornian Association for Victims of Violent Crime), buy it before the sale ends on March 4th!

🧟‍♀️ samuraishattered Follow not to be harsh but i hope you die

🌈 godsstrongestfujo Follow i think april may was a genuinely a bad person like she was just this rich woman who both did the modelling campaign + assisted in the murder to get money from her sugar daddy. shes not as innocent as yall make her out to be she just has pretty privelege

🍁 diskhorse-divorce Follow 1. she was not rich. she, her single mother, and sister were homeless for years. she had to be a child star and teen model to provide for herself and her family. they lived in a trailer at some point 2. she was very obviously being threatened by white. the courts said it was a lie because of fucking misogyny and white's power over her. 3. even if she did do it out of her own free will she still got executed over a crime where the death penalty at age 23 was not justified. 4. why are you calling a thirteen year old a bad person for doing an ad campaign where she was being heavily sexualised and exploited and stolen from you fucking weirdo

🩰 angelfawns Follow april may was such a tragic girl and an icon and so beautiful omg. she looked SO good during the summer 2008 ad campaign for bluecorp too. hold on i need to change my pfp

🐦‍⬛ proud-edgelord Follow if my parents named me teylhoure i wouldve killed myself too

[spinji]

Do you have any idea why Nana continued to dehumanize Shigaraki after learning that her murderer groomed him to be evil?

I think what a lot of people don't get with the whole "you might have to kill Shigaraki" thing is that Nana (and Torino by extension) aren't removing his autonomy when they say that.

At a certain point, it doesn't matter who's fault it is for turning someone into a villian. The entire purpose of Deku's rematch with Muscular is to make it clear that some people aren't going to stop destroying things and hurting people by talking about their abusive dad or their dead mom or whatever tragic circumstances led them here.

Tomura has also reached a similar point, refusing to compromise on his goal to destroy the causes of his suffering. That includes both All for One and the society that left him to rot. AFO meticulously planned a lot of Tenko’s misfortune but he didn't manipulate the strangers that passed him on the street. He didn't create that feeling of abandonment, only pointed it in the wrong direction. Tomura not making this choice for himself because he was groomed genuinely doesn't matter anymore because these are his choices now. He's shown multiple times to understand that AFO is using him against All Might and for his own ends, but he doesn't try to get away and turn to the heroes; he tries to get away so he can be a villian on his own terms.

It's easy to forget, since he's the protagonist, but Izuku's optimism about saving the crying boy at the core of who Tomura is, is a massive outlier and his leaps in logic aren't always solid. Nana is very callous when she talks about it, my personal guess is it's because she's still not fully willing to face her sense of guilt that her attempt to save her son from AFO led to the creation and abuse of Tomura. But she is still correct, regardless of what pain lingers inside Tomura, it is too late to help him.

Even when Izuku reaches his hand to Tenko when he is at his absolute most vulnerable, he maintains his loyalty to the league. He's been cast from society for so long that there's nothing that can convince him to stop. He would rather die destorying than live in a world he couldn't change.

In fact most of the major deaths in the league maintain this theme. Twice would rather die fighting than let his friends get screwed over by his own shortcomings again. Toga would rather die a free girl that lived as she pleased than fall in line with society. The heroes didn't choose to kill any of them from the outset, they could have gone quietly at any time to save their own skin, but their cause was more important.

This is what Nana means when she maintains that Shigaraki dying is a possiblity that needs to stay on the table, because he won't allow anything that isn't victory or death. It's tragic but I think it helps convey the message that the ending wants to, that change in how we treat the strange and disparaged doesn't just need to happen, but it needs to happen sooner. You can't just wait until a villian tries to blow up the country to try and help them, you need to give that kindness to everyone before those villians can even exist.

Sorry this got off topic because I really hate how people simplify the ending as bad writing when to me it seems really obvious that Horikoshi was going for a bittersweet ending with the league. They did destroy society but didn't live long enough to see what it rebuit into because even trust in one person trying to save them isn't enough when you're this far gone.

Either way, Horikoshi's writing style leads to a lot of necessary intuiting about the characters to actually understand the motivations for how they act. I think Nana ends up being a particularly rough victim of this because her stoicism and blunt attitude is very obviously supposed to be a front.

She opened herself up to others and All for One killed her loved ones, so she guards her heart the best she can to avoid showing more weaknesses. She does feel like a failure to her legacy; she never fully believes she made the right choices regarding Kotaro or Tomura. But if she cracks then not only is she done but AFO will make it his duty to twist the knife and hurt the people she cried for too.

She's a contrast to Izuku serving as a cautionary what-if scenario if Izuku's big open heart just makes more people targets by association (which it does!). She's not entirely right when she calls Tomura a monster but she isn't being entirely honest with herself either.

[armagg0n]

a take on Frankenstein for some reason

There's far more nuance to both Victor and the creature than anyone tends to give either character credit for. The creature isn't evil but also not misunderstood, he's a hyper-intelligent child forced to find his own way in a world that time and time again violently rejects him. The fist time he visits a town they stone him on sight. Of course he resents humanity, and Victor's rejection of him is a final straw. He comes to his own naïve conclusions, and having been shown violence time and time again, finds it natural when something detestable comes before him. So when he finds a child baring his neglectful fathers name, the rage he feels compels him to murder.

That is objectively wrong yes, but you cannot expect anything less from the child who has only been taught hatred and violence.

The creature is like a dog that has been taught to bite without warning because it's never had any other choice. That makes it understandable, tragic but not entirely justified.

equally Victor isn't evil either, people get on his back for not speaking up during Justine's trail (tbf what was he supposed to say? "my big magic monster is the true culprit, no I have no proof of that or even that he exists, just trust me bro") (we even see how poorly that goes when he tells the Sherriff later on in the book), but I attribute that to the fact that Victor was an extremely haunted and prideful person who believed it was up to him to solve his mess (it kinda is but not he way he tries to) because "surely nobody else could!" He's also fairly stupid. Scientifically he's a genius, obviously. But he also makes almost every wrong decision possible and rarely considers the consequences of his actions (He also believes the creature is planning to kill him when it's so unbelievably obvious that he intends to kill Elizabeth). He decides to try and deal with the problem he's caused on his own, but fails so many times that he eventually dies and the creature solves the issue of his existence himself. Victor was more of a deadbeat, a narcissist and a moron than a villain.

Because Frankenstein is not a story with true villains, just bad people

[teufelsabbiss]

Story-idea: Shen Yuan and his sister transmigrate

There are a lot of good stories already with Shen Yuan transmigrating into a young child that gets adopted by Shen Qingqiu. Most don't account for a glaringly obvious problem in this setup - Shen Qingqiu's hate of men. And I think boys are very much included in that sentiment. So what if Shen Yuan and his meimei transmigrate and she's the reason they get picked up?

Shen Yuan and his sister could have a traffic accident, maybe she's driving him while he's furiously tipping his last hate reply. Both are transmigrated into siblings that are sold to a brothel. Luckily they are both too young to offer full services yet and do chores instead. Shen Yuan doesn't recognize the brothel's name from the book, so he thinks they are at least out of the way of any revenge or wife plots until they can escape. Turns out they won't stay there long enough to even come up with a good plan.

A few days after they were sold, his little sister has to wait on one of the clients. Said client is very displeased to see such a young girl there. To make it worse for the brothel owner, the little Shen sister is very cute and funny and so apparently somehow manages to immediately worm her way into the guys heart and he promptly buys her contract.

He tells her that he has no bad intentions towards her, but will instead take her to his sect to learn cultivation. She doesn't really believe him at first and also refuses to leave without her brother. He's not overly happy that he has to buy a boy as well, but does it readily enough anyway.

Miraculously, after their contracts has changed hands, the brothel owner dies under tragic circumstances. You see, he was killed by a resentful ghost. But luckily the aforementioned client just happens to be a cultivator who was on a mission and just got there on his way back to his sect. And while he was too late to prevent the tragic death, he got rid of the ghost quickly after the murder. Case closed; what a relief for the local authorities! One of the prostitutes is happy to take over the establishment.

The Shen siblings aren't stupid, their new owner obviously murdered the guy and fooled the guards with this bullshit ghost story! No complaints about that, really. It does however also mean that this guy is unscrupulous and it will be more dangerous to get away than before. Learning that the man is actually the scum-villan Shen Qingqiu definitely doesn't make the situation better.

But then they get to Cang Qiong and are officially accepted into Qing Jing peak. The Shen sister immediately becomes good friends with Ning YingYing, who is about the same age as her new body. Which means Luo Binghe isn't there yet and everything awful can still be averted.

I think it would be really funny if the sister got very attached to Shen Qingqiu, who dotes on her as much as Ning YingYing, and Shen Yuan freaking out about this. Not only because he's constantly worrying about her getting molested and she vehemently insisting that's never going to happen, but also! How can his sister like the Scum-Villain of all people in the slightest!!! “Why, meimei? You're usually so clever and perceptive! What's wrong with you?!”

And then one day Luo Binghe joins and the Shen sister is now almost constantly clinging to Shen Qingqiu's skirts and he's not mistreating the protagonist (no matter how much he wants to) because it would upset his little babygirl. Can't have that.

[zaebeecee]

Re: Blitzø’s self loathing and Apology Tour

tl;dr I hate when writing gets stupid and turns characters into assholes because the writers have to keep characters miserable for story purposes

I understand that part of Apology Tour is showcasing how mentally and emotionally exhausting it can be to continually try and prop up someone who is so determined to be self-defeating. But, while I appreciate the message, it kind of fell flat for me at this point in HB and I’m gonna tell you why because I’ve been thinking about this a lot:

Zero people outside of Cash and Barbie know all of the reasons that Blitzø hates himself, and the fact that Stolas acts like he understands is bullshit.

Stolas never met Cash, and he wasn’t privy to the conversation where his father bought Blitzø for $5 and a slim fit condom. The other members of I.M.P. know Blitzø was in the circus, but they might not even know it burned down, let alone how it happened. Fizz doesn’t know Tilla was killed in that fire, and might not even know that she’s dead at all.

Blitzø was sold like an object for “whatever Paimon’s butler had on him”, and then was emotionally manipulated into committing a crime that he would have been executed for if he was caught. He inadvertently caused that fire because he was extremely upset after watching his father (who clearly abused him at least emotionally and was constantly forcing him to prove that he loved his own family) give his best friend/crush a card that said he wished Fizz was his son (‘instead’ heavily implied). And no, this is no excuse for Blitzø’s behavior as an adult, but it is very clear that he was abused as a child and no one outside of his immediate family either noticed or cared.

And can we talk about the fire for a second? Obviously, the most tragic part is what happened to Tilla and Fizz; the fact that Blitzø believes he murdered his mother, one of the only people who has ever known him and loved him simultaneously, and mutilated his best friend because of some subconscious jealousy bullshit, is enough to break a normal person. But that isn’t all that happened. That circus was both the livelihood and the home of everyone who worked there. The fire completely destroyed the lives of everyone there. And what about the circus animals? How many of them died because the employees were too busy getting themselves and each other out to even bother with the animals who were likely locked in cages?

Don’t get me wrong, Blitzø needs to talk to someone about this. He needs therapy, very badly. But that isn’t what’s upsetting me.

The two things that are upsetting me are the fact that Stolas was so dismissive when Blitzø actually managed to admit he had self loathing issues (he didn’t manage to say it to Fizz), and the fact that Stolas treated Blitzø like he was being an asshole for not treating an annual party dedicated to hating him and burning him in effigy like it was proof people care about him.

During the first scene of AT, Blitzø asks if Stolas wants him to admit that he struggles with apologies because he hates himself, and Stolas says “well, yes” like this is old ground that they’ve trodden many times before. But it isn’t. Blitzø has had very few moments of emotional vulnerability in the show (crying on the couch in front of Loona, apologizing to Fizz, and confronting Barbie in front of Moxxie are the only instances I can think of). But the rest of the time, he presents himself as the most self-assured asshole you’ve ever met, someone who’s too full of himself and too arrogant to consider that other people might have feelings or that he himself could ever be wrong. And this is very bad, but Blitzø’s problems stem from the fact that everyone thinks he is the literal opposite of self-loathing.

The closest Stolas got to seeing real vulnerability from Blitzø was when he was terrified of going on camera, but that was stage fright, and Stolas never even asked why he stopped performing or became scared of doing it, and Blitzø got over it very quickly once he was out there (as is typical of performers and stage fright). The Full Moon was the first time Stolas saw that level of emotional vulnerability from Blitzø, and by the very next morning, he was acting like they’d already been through this a thousand times.

I don’t know what’s being suggested here, because they’re both kind of terrible. Either Stolas never noticed that Blitzø hates himself and, once Blitzø admits it, he doesn’t really care; or Stolas noticed before the admission, and he did absolutely nothing about it.

And, my god, fuck the sentiment of “this house is full of people who cared so much that they throw a party every year dedicated to hating you”. Not only was Blitzø’s point that he was struggling to believe royalty could care about someone as socially “low” as him (as well as someone like Stolas caring about someone who is as much of an asshole as Blitzø knows he is), there is nothing affirming about being hated. Some of the people at that party had interacted with Blitzø for, like, 30 minutes, and we know this because he made out with Dennis once and then rejected him and this was apparently enough to get Dennis to the party. If Stolas actually does care about Blitzø and knows that he hates himself, why would it be anything but a terrible idea to point out to him “yeah, your self-loathing is completely warranted, because this party is fucking packed with people who also despise you and they didn’t even need to know you for more than a few minutes to decide you were so awful that getting together every year for the express purpose of hating you was a good idea”?

Both Stolas and Blitzø were terrible in Apology Tour, but Blitzø was at least the same kind of terrible he’s been for most of the show, with the added benefit of seeing that it’s a mask that’s quickly cracking. And no, obviously, Stolas is under no obligation to either listen to Blitzø or forgive him, clearly. And Stolas was well within his right to go dance with or fuck that handsome incubus. But for Stolas to listen to his vulnerability and then dismiss it, for him to listen to Blitzø apologize and then ignore it, for him to refuse to acknowledge that Blitzø put himself in a very physically and emotionally dangerous position by coming to that party just to talk to Stolas, is bullshit. And, outside of the song in the episode, Stolas also seems to be doing absolutely zero self-reflection on what parts of the Full Moon conversation going wrong might have been his fault.

As someone who sometimes struggles with self-loathing, I understand that it can be difficult on my loved ones and I’m not saying Blitzø shouldn’t own the parts of this struggle that are within his control. But I really need Stolas to recognize that he doesn’t understand, he doesn’t know Blitzø the way he thinks he does, and that if he wants to have any chance of understanding he has to at least try and listen before Blitzø stops trying to open up to him.

I know this is a writing problem. I know the writers are trying to maintain the status quo of their breakup, and apparently the only way they can do that and still have them interact is by making both of them unbearable. But Blitzø confronting and dealing with his feelings about himself is one of the core themes of the show, and it’s infuriating to see his love interest be so flippant about it from the moment he even learns about it.

[mc-critical]

Satrakci's Ibratice & Hürremleo parallels

Sadika and Matrakci become a more fascinating story with each rewatch and one of the main reasons why is the parallels it has with two other resident tragic couples.

[My initial plan for the post was for it to only be about Satrakci's parallels with Ibratice, as I wanted to rework what I said in this IG edit I made for Sol's birthday back in July (I've been unwell ever since I was graced with the Ibratice parallels then), but upon rewatch I noticed the Hürremleo parallels as well, so why not include both, right?]

In terms of Hürremleo, the parallels are looser at first; they can be seen more through some similarities in role either Sadika or Matrakci have to Leo or Hürrem, as well as the ties they have with them in the respective plots, but then the parallels become more and more direct due to the shared, ongoing tragedy of both stories.

Both Leo and Sadika are from another country and come in Istanbul for an ""ulterior"" motive connected to their love: Leo searches for his Alexandra, while Sadika seeks vengeance for her Ariel. They gain others' favor along the way and it's this exact favor that complicates matters for them even further: Sadika is sent to Hatice and Ibrahim's castle, while Leo is sent to a painters' workshop, both encountering difficulty to finish their respective duties or missions, what's ordered to them by the rulers in general (killing Süleiman ordered by Louis, finishing Süleiman's portrait ordered by SS himself). The agency of both of them is constantly violated when they only want to be done soon as possible (Leo's aforementioned "order" itself is merely a part of this, and even though Sadika wants to seek her vengeance, the pressure is definitely wearing on her too). Both of them get someone (Nigar, Matrakci) to send their letters to the people related to their 'purposes', their closest people there, really. Both of them are labeled as traitors and are "dealt with" in the same episode after their 'traitorous' acts have been revealed in some way.

There's a whole post to be made about Sadika's parallels with Hürrem, but overall it's their whole trajectory in the harem that is paralleled: they win over some main authorities (the dynasty and SS respectively) but not others, however those who are won over are really won over, their fondness and trust is really earned (until it's broken at some point, whether permanently or for a while, namely due to something to do with murder on different scales: Ay��e Hatun's murder - that both Hürrem and Sadika are tied to - or the murder attempt on SS); they cling to their original faith at first (parallel scenes with their crosses) and become muslim for more pragmatic reasons (I believe Hürrem started developing some feelings for SS right when she fainted in his arms, with her praising him in front of Gülnihal after that scene, and having flashbacks later and so on, but it was all a gradual process); their motivations have to do (at least at first in Hürrem's case) with revenge due to their past experiences, their loved ones' losses; they are seperately tutored by Sümbül Ağa (and both call his name wrong at times!); the concubines dislike and mistrust them due to their respective rises in the ranks and both have beefs with Ayşe Hatun in particular. Both Sadika and Hürrem also have Leo and Matrakci respectively as likely to compromise what they have accomplished, so they don't want them around themselves much (at least not until Sadika finds use for Matrakci and yet she doesn't want him to go much beyond that use, understandably), no matter how much they may appreciate them or what they do for them.

Both Matrakci and Leo are harem outsiders that perceive that whole world as foreign or just beyond them no matter how close to it they appear to be at this point, so the only thing they can do is go with the flow and navigate it together (Matrakci obviously knows way more than Leo but still). They are ordinary people that somehow always end up at the heart of the action (i.e. the jannisary rebellion) due to their ties with the main characters (Hürrem and Ibrahim respectively). Both of them are characterized by their strong loves. Both of them are insistent on taking every chance they get to meet their loves no matter how impossible it may seem. Both of them lean on hope to get closure with their loves no matter how delayed (Matrakci) or inconceivable (Leo) it is. Both of them are devastated at the end as they face the consequences of being involved in a supposed betrayal. Both of them want their own lives to be taken instead of having to deal with the aftermath of the painful event (that would include having to see their loves suffer or them having to make their loves suffer).

Both Matrakci and Hürrem are people who are still on their path to adapt, but get more and more ingrained in the palace life eventually to the point they get inseparable from it much later on (and that is also helped by their contrasting relationships with Ibrahim). Both of them function as Leo's guides to the inner workings of the castle at certain points. Both of them are motivated by their resurged or newfound care for him here and try to help him in many ways. Both of them try to arrange for their loves to leave (whether subtly or directly, whether for real or as a ruse for another order to be followed). Both of them have to deal with the deaths of their loved ones, brought forth by their hands, due to a cruel order of the same person. Both of them can't seem to forget the experience, no matter how much one might push them to. Both of them keep it close to their hearts.

The more we go, the more tied together these different people get. From Sadika who comes to the harem with a mission that becomes likely to get compromised and that comes to involve Hürrem (when does Hürrem first dream of Leo himself, with him telling her he'll save her? Oh, right - when she was exiled in Edirne for Sadika's murder of Ayşe!); to Sadika aiming more adamantly for SS's chambers, becoming a direct threat for Hürrem, thus she sends her away; to Leo arriving in Istanbul and then showing up all the more in the place Sadika is sent away in; to Hürrem seeing Leo again for the first time in that same place; to Hürrem meeting Leo there again, with Sadika getting involved too for a bit, suspecting something and searching at Leo's things (and it's namely there almost all her meetups with Matrakci are as well); to both the orchestration of Leo's death and the final sealing of Sadika's fate being all tied again to Ibrahim's castle (the main room and the dungeon, respectively), to Ibrahim himself.

Ibrahim seems to "bless" both respective couples or at least the people that are part of them that are more tied to him (Matrakci, Leo); one instance genuine, the other quite performative (wanting to marry Matrakci to Sadika throughout many episodes; telling Leo to confess everything in order for Ibrahim to ""protect"" Hürrem in E24), but ultimately, he screws over both of them at the same time, in the same episode (Hürremleo at day, Satrakci at night), without hesitation. They are forever torn apart and only the surviving have to deal with the fallout (no wonder Matrakci's anguish right after Sadika's death is immediately followed by Hürrem's cries in the hammam!).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In terms of Ibratice, along with the more basic similarities in role these four people share with one another and the ways they're tied in their respective plots, we have more outlined but deceptive parallels that solidify and become more legitimate due to the joint inevitable future tragedies that await both stories.

Both Ibrahim and Sadika are loved before they feel anything for the people who love them in return. They make their first move only when they sense they can latch onto these people due to different reasons, but they still grow eventual fondness for them regardless. They are the more restrained, cautious side in most of the interactions. They are the ones mostly sending the letters.

Both Ibrahim and Matrakci are the more active forces in their dynamics with their significant others: they seek the opportunities to arrange the meetings, they mostly send the gifts. They are more persistent to fight for their loves however possible. They respect each other's feelings (at least to a point in Ibrahim's case) because they get each other and they get it. They're close witnessers of the others' happiness.

Both Hatice and Sadika have faced the death of their former husband and have trauma related to that, regardless of their different views on said men and their different reactions. Both of them are pressured by those above them in some ways (Hatice to marry Mehmet Celebi; Sadika to avenge Ariel as quickly as possible, at all costs). Both of them are wary not to be seen, of the reactions of others while meeting Ibrahim and Matrakci respectively. Both of them strive for put some distance between Ibrahim and Matrakci respectively, no matter the reason.

Hatice's dynamic with Sadika in particular, along with Ibrahim's with Matrakci, is only bound to put Sadika and Matrakci's parallel story at a center stage. Both Hatice and Ibrahim relate to the hurdle Sadika and Matrakci are apparently experiencing, as this is a hurdle they both have recently experienced and they (Hatice especially) want Sadika and Matrakci to flourish, so they obviously plan to marry them.

However, just like Hatice is a distant witnesser to what's happening around Sadika and the similarities between the four are again very baseline, that relating of Ibratice's to Satrakci is merely relating by assumption. Ibrahim and Hatice think that a love story is happening in front of them, but despite of the similar secret meetings both duos have in the palace gardens, Sadika and Matrakci aren't quite a love story. It's more about Sadika seeking ways to smooth her situation over and fulfill her mission. While Matrakci really loved her, the way Sadika's feelings develop turns out to be way more complicated and it all starts from an initial sense of discomfort, even fear (given her previous experience with Bonçuk Ağa, why wouldn't she be wary of another man who wants her and pursues her?; I think the main reason why she grew fond of Matrakci regardless was him actually showing Sadika basic respect in spite of his passionate feelings he also struggled to contain at times, along with him helping her that unconditionally. And given how many traumas related to that she's experienced - not just by Bonçuk but also by Süleiman - of course that would mean the world to her. Him actually being decent to her and facilitating her mission? Of course that would come to comfort her at least a bit.), then moving to gratitude and only then, finally, to appreciation and fondness (even before his offer for escape in E25, as she called him a good person several times before, in E24 as well) and even then, the objective is prioritized most. The letters weren't letters for her uncle but for the Hungarian king. They all were involved in a spy mission and no one realized it until it was already too late.

But the more we head to the reveal of who Sadika truly is and the characters' realizations and reactions, the closer Satrakci end up to Ibratice. Along with Sadika becoming fonder of Matrakci, more parallels between her and Ibrahim crop up as both of them emerge as traitors to the Sultan not just through their parallel plot-lines in the same episode with Leo/Hürrem and Süleiman respectively (with Ibrahim as the more indirect traitor in both the Leo situation and his involuntary involvement in Sadika's own 'traitorous' actions; though both him and Sadika are placed as killers in their parallel plot-lines: one of Leo - a successful attempt, the other of Süleiman - an unsuccessful one), but also through one finalizing action that will directly threaten the sultan (more metaphorically in Ibrahim's case and more literally in Sadika's) that will bring them on their way to execution.

Sadika is immediately disarmed and imprisoned, awaiting for her fate while the full extent of her several crimes is yet being uncovered. lbrahim's single crime is still pondered on by Süleiman, so he isn't directly confronted, it all rather seeming like his relationship with SS is on a high instead, having no idea what would later come forth. Both Ibrahim and Sadika are supposedly given a way out by (Ibrahim's other lover :DDDD) Süleiman and Matrakci respectively - Ibrahim apparently solidifiying even more his perhaps no longer shaky place next to his majesty and Sadika getting hopeful for a few moments that, maybe, an escape is truly possible (this can also be a parallel with Hatice to an extent - with her having worries earlier but ultimately brushing them off until the unavoidable truth is delivered to her, just like Sadika). Both are executed anyway.

This is where the parallels between Matrakci and Hatice come in: Both Matrakci and Hatice will have to grapple with these respective deaths. The loves of both emerge as traitors executed by the order of another person - of the one person, the next person Matrakci and Hatice value the most. Even though Ibrahim's death comes as a surprise to Hatice, while Matrakci is all too aware of it, having to follow the order himself, their pain is the same. And both of them are urged to get over it "with time", but they struggle to (and Hatice doesn't manage to at all; just like Sadika, she'll want to AVENGE her (other) husband who SS killed).

All these different people are tied together all the more directly and from the very beginning: Ibrahim brings Sadika in the castle per Matrakci's request due to Matrakci's pity and compassion for her; the first move Sadika does to gain favor is done during Hatice's engagement to Mehmet Celebi; Sadika becomes Hatice's main lady not only due to Hürrem's suggestion, but also because she too has come to like her; Sadika and Matrakci's whole story takes place in Ibrahim's castle once again; Ibratice's wedding opens the path for a possible Satrakci wedding, as I already mentioned; both Sadika and Matrakci (along with Leo) are next to Hatice during the jannisary rebellion and witness the loss of her child; Ibrahim and Matrakci order a brooch and a necklace for Hatice and Sadika respectively at the same time after Hatice loses the child; the closer Satrakci get to Ibratice's orbit in general, the more chipper Ibratice get over said possible wedding, trying to realize it... until Satrakci's doom suddenly comes forth, once again by the same person they've been "blessed" by before {and on an interesting more symbolic note that links that doom even more with Ibrahim: we have water motives around both Satrakci and Ibratice. Matrakci's last moments with Sadika, with what will only become a relic of the past, were on a boat (coming full-circle, as Sadika herself also arrived in Istanbul by a boat, ready to embrace her future). Ibrahim traveled on a ship to Parga, a remnant of his past as well, after everyone learned about his relationship with Hatice and it was unclear what would happen. Both relationships were threatened and in a completely final way, in terms of Satrakci. The freedom symbolism of the ship is pretty much taken away for the boat namely by the guy for who it meant freedom to quite an extent and it's turned into a close, inevitable, encompassing doom instead of a further, temporary one (although one could argue that some of the original freedom symbolism remains against all odds, as Matrakci allowed Sadika to put the sack on her head herself - but the outcome isn't changed regardless and this is sadly the most he could do in this situation...). Ibrahim himself is quite associated with boats too outside of that and this association is even called back in his last episode. Ibrahim is executed at night, just like Sadika is. Okay, I may be reaching here a bit, BUT...}.

Regardless of his earlier "blessing" of Sadika and Matrakci, everything is discarded after the betrayal and Ibrahim will make him execute her anyway, constantly insisting for him to move on. What's more intriguing, he tells this to Hatice as well, presenting the very assertion of "moving on with time" that she'll challenge in the future namely over her grief for him [the "scales of relation" tip again - it's now Ibrahim who distances himself from Matrakci's circumstances (even though he will end up unable to due to what'll come for him in the future), while Hatice relates to Matrakci's pain (and she'll continue relating to it in the future). It's kind of fascinating that Ibrahim and Hatice are actually at odds for this and that it is one of the first things they're actually at odds for outside of their different relationships with Hürrem, even before Hatice's first pull of rank on him; it may not be just a matter of viewpoints (and coping mechanisms: Ibrahim strives to completely move on from his painful experiences, to not even recall them and expects others to do so as well, while Hatice arrives at a point when she no longer can after the person she leans on the most is also taken away from her, after her brother too is taken away from her; how can she cling to peace any further, will it be possible? She desperately wishes to make it possible, however...) - Ibrahim at this point definitely wouldn't want her to grieve for him forever, he would like to spare her that pain, still though...]. So Matrakci and Sadika skip straight to Ibrahim and Hatice's tragic ending in spite of both Ibrahim and Hatice's hopes for them to get that initial happy ending of their wedding instead. This is how Satrakci emerge right up as tragic mirrors to Ibratice that'll only be an omen for the future, no matter how many ups there otherwise are and will be, no matter how much everything seems to be smoothed over.

[vashtijoy]

thank you for such a comprehensive answer! does make me wonder though — the game clearly has no qualms with saying that akechi did kill people directly and did cause deaths indirectly (e.g. the bus incident explicitly stated to have caused fatalities). so why on earth does p5 say the subway train derailment caused no deaths?? this is probably a very weird detail to zero in, but i feel like a heavier train in an enclosed space carrying more people than a bus is much more dangerous. ngl it broke my immersion on my first playthrough a little lol

I know what you mean, lol. Tbh, Akechi is obviously intended to be sympathetic—to be the worst case example of what happens when a kid is exploited by rotten adults and has nobody to help them.

This is why there are so many parallels between his tragic backstory and the stories of a lot of the PTs—he has Futaba's abusive family background, Ryuji's single mom, Yusuke's orphanhood and exploitative father figure, Haru's terrible father, and I'm sure there's something there for Makoto as well.

This is why, at the end of the engine room, he's met not with condemnation but with grace and understanding. This is why, though he does feel sorry for himself at the end and mourn what he's lost, he doesn't squirm and beg and justify himself like the earlier palace bosses—with the exception of Sae. This is why he gets a dramatic self-sacrifice and gets to come back as an antihero, who goes all-out to save the world at the cost of his life in passing, because it's in his personal interests to do so. Akechi is intended to have been sinned against as much, or more, than he has sinned.

At the end of the day, Akechi is a Phantom Thief, even though he's not really on the team, doesn't align with their motives, and almost nobody really likes him—just like them, he's a kid who was placed in an impossible situation, and they all get that. Even while they understand the reality of who he is and what he's done.

This raises the complicated "is he a victim" question again, of course, and the reality is that he's both a victim and perpetrator—like, of course, most criminals. Akechi isn't special. His backstory lets us understand what he's done; it doesn't undo it—and he knows that.

So what's going on, if I can go all Doylian for a second, is that there's an attempt to soft-soap the reality of what Akechi does—to keep him sympathetic. He doesn't shoot people in real life, for instance (with two notable attempted exceptions)—he gives them "mental shutdowns", giving him a layer of insulation from not only the physical reality of murder, but the moral reality of it.

Like the moment he sees Futaba unexpectedly in Leblanc, and ends up chattering oh shit, you're Wakaba Isshiki's— Like the moment on 10/11 that he walks up to Sae to see what she has on her laptop, and it's the Okumura death video, and he nearly vomits; he claps a hand over his eyes, and only then moves it to cover his mouth.

This is the reason he's so visibly unsettled a lot of the time in the interrogation room, why he stares at that dead guard wide-eyed for so long, and stares at dead "Joker" for so long during that cutaway to Sojiro that the gun stops smoking. He is—and we are—almost always insulated from the reality of his acts. tl;dr: you aren't meant to have to think too much about what it means that the pretty boy is a murderer and terrorist, if you don't want to. And that's fine! There is no wrong way to understand the game, no wrong way to play. A huge part of interpreting a work of fiction is what we bring to it ourselves.

But if you want to dig into that reality, it is there to be found. The fact that psychotic breakdowns obviously can be fatal, that Akechi performs them for Shido from the start, from two years before canon. That he performs so many of them that he becomes a detective, to make sure they're properly "cleaned up" himself. The fact that he makes two of the Phantom Thieves orphans. That Shido considers "proper use of the Metaverse" to be eliminating those in his way. That he sells Akechi's services to anyone suitably wealthy and controllable he can find. That, at the start of the game, all of Tokyo is terrified of this plague of accidents, of psychotic breakdowns, and that, per Sae, the incidents have been going on at least since Wakaba Isshiki died—two years before canon.

You also have things like the fact that he clearly negotiates what he does, as you can see in the post-interrogation room conversations with Shido—he can talk his way out of kill orders, or postpone them, as long as he doesn't push it, and he does this. There's no reason to think this isn't part of their dynamic all along. Shido manipulates Akechi with praise, sure, but Akechi also manipulates Shido as much as he can get away with.

There's also the SIU Director, on 7/10, complaining about how "he" (Akechi) is insufficiently brutal and doesn't come up with usably brutal plans. On the other hand, Akechi will, later, come up with the vicious detail of the plan to murder Joker in the interrogation room; that's his plan. He's told what to do (we join that incriminating phone call conveniently halfway), but he comes up with the details himself. He's on an arc, albeit one that isn't always obvious, and a large part of it is that Joker is slowly driving him out of his mind.

I just think Akechi is way more interesting, and that his manner and behaviour make far more sense, if he has done a lot of these things. The main thing that draws my eye is the visible lack of response he has to the atrocities he causes. Going back to that nice conversation you both have on 7/11, you know what he's almost certainly just done there? He's triggered the Goodness Foods car crash, which the evening news will report takes place at 8am on 7/11.

(and writing about this clarified so many things that it, again, became its own post oops.)

The crash kills four people. By the time you're on the train to school, the news is reporting this. Akechi seems completely fine with it all, better than fine—except there are tiny suggestions of something else, if you squint, something far below the numbness to what he does and what he's become; far below the bright surface. Something that will later be riveted in disbelief to the dead guard on the floor of the interrogation room.

That's interesting.

[chloe-caulfield94]

I don't understand that section of the LiS fanbase, at all

I'll never understand folks who sacrifice Chloe and also gush over how cute she is with Max or how cool of a character she is. Okay, don't murder her then. Is there something I'm missing? Her life or death is up to you. If you decide to kill her, then she obviously is not that important to you. Certainly not your "number one priority".

Go bask in your glory of an everyday hero who'd be willing to kill their own friend for "the greater good" instead of crying crocodile tears over Chloe's coffin.

An especially egregious example of such mentality is fetishizing Chloe as a "tragic" character, a member of the 27 Club with an 8 year head start. Dude, you're the one turning her life story into a tragedy. You're the one killing her. You're the one depriving her of a happy ending, of a fresh start. I don't understand the morbid interest in Chloe's story viewed through that lens.

The story of a troubled kid who everyone gave up on, including her family, her friends and even herself, who died a stupid death that could've been prevented had she had at least one person standing in her corner (but as it turned out, there was nobody willing to stick by her) is not interesting or captivating. It's simply revolting. And to tell you the truth, quite unoriginal in its inhumanity and banal in its cruelty. Look out the window and you'll see hundreds of stories like that. Is this the sort of tale you wish to write with your choices?

At least I can understand Chloe Price haters. They sacrifice Chloe, because they are lusting to murder the person they are seething with hatred towards. They sacrifice Chloe, because they are deriving sick pleasure from handing down the death penalty for the unforgivable crime of being a troubled teen. That mindset is condemnable, but I can at least understand it, even though I would never think or feel that way, not about Chloe, not about anyone else.

But I cannot comprehend the mindset of celebrating the character that you judged unworthy of survival, less important than others, whose life you chose to spend as a resource. We get it, you performed the incredibly complex analysis of "one is less than multiple", you proved you possess "the strongest of wills to make the hardest of choices".

You decided that there were others "who should live way more" than Chloe and you swung the headman's axe. I salute both your strength to usurp for yourself the right to judge who is more worthy of life and your courage to immediately kill to enforce your swift and wise judgement. I personally, being a coward, faced with a choice to sacrifice a human life to stop a tornado would refuse to do so and let the events unfold, as I feel I am in no position to ever judge who should live and who should die. I guess that's just my weakness and liberal, tree-hugging concern for human dignity speaking.

But could you please stop smiling over the coffin of your victim? Could you please stop recollecting all the moments of joy and friendship that you selfishly decided to take back, that you erased, that you prevented from ever hapening? Could you please stop celebrating the friend that you used for five days to make yourself feel better about your past mistakes and to go through a coming-of-age adventure, who you then discarded like a toy you got bored with, making sure that she never experienced any of the things you did?

Go have fun with all the people you saved instead of performatively mourning the person whose life you deemed so insignificant you chose to willingly cause her death.

In her darkest moment she said she didn't deserve Max's love and friendship, that she didn't even deserve to live. And instead of proving her wrong, uplifiting her, giving a chance to begin again somewhere the past would hold no dominion over her, you chose to prove her right. Denying her a chance at life, you pushed her back into the quagmire of the past, to drown.

Sadistic fate set her up as the Price to be paid. And in your blind obedience to evil destiny, you chose to pay with her life. Whether that made you feel bad or sad was irrelevant to her as she died alone, abandoned and afraid, in a pool of her own blood.

On a related note, don't you think Bay Max keeping Chloe's belongings is deeply disturbing? The belongings of a girl who saw Max for the last time five years ago? I'm fairly certain that if you asked the Monday, pre-parking lot Chloe (so the one who is murdered) if she wished for her personal belongings to pass to Max in case of her death, she would respond with an emphatic "no". I wonder, would Bay Max lie to Joyce, telling her that she got to reconnect with Chloe before her murder (she didn't, since she erased all the time she had spent with Chloe). This only goes to show that Bay Max is totally out of character - basically a creepy body snatcher.

[kipperlillyforpresident]

FAQ / about

I had so many feelings about KLCK that I decided to make this blog to contain them. I genuinely really like her as a character and I've been really bummed out by how a lot of fans talk about her, so here I am.

A self-indulgent FAQ about my thoughts on KLCK is under the cut. You are under no obligation to read them, obviously. But hey, in case you're wondering about the nitty-gritty of my emotions - go on ahead!

q: You know she killed people, right?

Yes. She is being infected by a god of rage and also a lot of our favorite loveable characters have ALSO done murders and also god forbid women do anything <3

q: Strawman question about the affirmative action/DEI hater Kipperlilly interpretation - what do you think of that?

I think that canonically, within the lore of D20, halflings are a colonized race who are seen as a "model minority", and I think it's a little tasteless to go that angle with her character. Purposefully calling this one a strawman question because I admittedly cannot be unbiased on this matter.

q: Don't you think it's fucked up that she was jealous of Riz's dad being dead?

yes of course it was fucked up thats the point thats what makes her INTERESTIING

Also, I must stress this: she told Jawbone about this jealousy in a private counseling session. You know. The place where you are supposed to work through your worst intrusive thoughts.

Finally, my dad died when I was 17, so I'm giving her permission to indulge in this fantasy. Guys its fine its fineeee SHE CAN RECLAIMM

q: Do you think she's right about literally every single thing?

No of course not. She's so wrong. That's what makes her interesting.

q: Do you really think she should be the student body president?

From an in-universe perspective? no she is being infected by a god of rage <3 from a storytelling perspective? absolutely. i've found kristen's campaign to be the weakest and most frustrating arc of this season by far, and i think it'd be narratively hollow for her to actually win after All That.

q: Wait, you hate Kristen's campaign? Is this a Kristen hate blog?

Yes I do, and no it is not! Kristen is an interesting case, because I really do find her interesting from an in-universe perspective. At times, I think she can be one of the most tragic and complex characters. She is just a teenage girl who has had far too many burdens placed upon her!

But when we look at Kristen as the sum of her parts, as a player in the narrative... I'm not a huge fan of a lot of the choices Ally has made. This is supposed to be the season where chaos stops being cute, and as we rapidly approach the finish line, I still don't see that promise being held.

(Also, I hate to have to pre-emptively do this defense, but: I literally have ADHD. I am aware that Ally is playing Kristen as somebody with ADHD. That doesn't change my perspective on much.)

q: What does it say about you that you preemptively made this defensive FAQ?

That I like to hear myself talk too much, and that I have engaged in far too much discourse in my youth.

q: What is your main blog?

@mozukumi :-)

[unforth]

what about mo ran killing at the drunken jade then? why do people insist he had no choice? he choose to kill those people who abused him but it's wrong if shi mei does the same to save his people?

Oh, shut up. You tried to set me up but did it so badly that your comment doesn't even tie in to what I said.

I already acknowledged that I think Mo Ran made some choices wrong. Obviously he did, he's no moral paragon, he's a fucking mess. But he feels remorse and compassion and he tries to start over. When he's out of the bad situation, he tries to move on and do better.

I also acknowledge that how BBBF are treated is tragic and awful and the upper cultivation world fucked up big time. But Mo Ran directly hurts the people who directly hurt him. Shi Mei, especially 0.5, decides to hurt EVERYONE because he was hurt. These are not equivalent actions. Shi Mei could have made different and better choices and also had opportunities to start over. Shi Mei in the second time line DOES do this, after everything, and I support that for him wholeheartedly.

I get that you have a bug up your ass over your chosen interpretation of these characters and events, but please remember also these aren't people, they're narrative structures made up for the purpose of telling a story about power dynamics and choice and many other themes that are prominent in the book like revenge and forgiveness.

Hua Binan chooses to direct his pain outward, repeatedly, against anyone and everyone regardless of if they hurt him.

Mo Ran does the same but only after the flower robs him of agency. Before that, the only people he confronts are those who hurt him. If the only person Hua Binan hurt was his dad I'd support him wholeheartedly, his dad is a great big bag of dicks who deserves to suffer. And Shi Mei in the 2nd timeline does repent, and seek a different way.

Killing everyone in the upper cultivation world doesn't save ~his people~. He has no compunction about using and killing ~his people~ when it suits him. Don't forget who actually hurt Mo Ran in the first timeline and who actually killed Song Qiutong in the second. Hua Binan might not have wielded a blade himself to do it cause that's not his style but when he needed the power of a BBBF he saw no reason not to use it too. Saving ~his people~? Please. How many of his people died because of his actions? How can you save anyone by mass murder?

You like Shi Mei and don't like Mo Ran, clearly, and that's fine, but like. Honestly? I don't need to defend the made-up actions of fictional characters from you, nor do I need to justify that I like certain characters more than others. I think Hua Binan isn't defensible. I think second Shi Mei is. I think Mo Ran is, and I'll own I don't know that I think Taxian Jun is, while I appreciate TXJ narratively I can't actually say I like him.

Anyway, your asks are getting annoying. I can't promise to answer more. If you don't like how Meatbun chose to write these characters, that's a-okay, but maybe stop bugging those of us who are okay with it.